Will Reisman 12/10/25 Will Reisman 12/10/25

Broken Dreams Club Interview: Magic Fig

A San Francisco supergroup of sorts (although what Bay Area band isn’t a “supergroup”), Magic Fig bring an undeniably unique sound and aesthetic to the local scene. Comprised of members from the Umbrellas, Whitney’s Playland, Almond Joy and Healing Potpourri, among others, Magic Fig specialize in proggy, psychedelic tracks that recall both the late 60s acts of San Francisco’s hippie heyday and 70s English bands like Yes and Rush.

Made up of Matt Ferrara (bass), Muzzy Moskowitz (guitar), Jon Chaney (keyboards, piano) Inna Showalter (vocals, mellotron), and Taylor Giffin (drums and percussion), the band released their debut self-titled EP last year to much critical acclaim. They recently followed with their first full-length album, the dazzling and daring “Valerian Tea,” which came out on November 21 via Exploding in Sound Records.

Broken Dreams Club connected with Showalter and Chaney prior to the band’s album release show on Saturday, which will take place at the 4 Star Theater:

You’re all accomplished musicians who play in a ton of local bands. I’m sure you’ve all known each other for years. But how did this collection of individuals come together to form Magic Fig? When did you all start practicing together? Was the intention from the beginning to form a band?

Inna Showalter: We had all been acquainted through the music scene and mutual friends. Jon, Muzzy, and Matt first started playing together in 2020 and tried out several drummers before Taylor joined. They had already recorded demos of some of the songs that would end up on the self-titled EP by the time I was invited to join the band.

Jon Chaney: Muzzy asked me one day if I wanted to start a band and then he asked who should play bass. I knew Matt liked music from the 1700’s so I thought he’d be a good fit.

The band has such a specific aesthetic—it’s very proggy and ethereal. It doesn’t really sound anything like your other bands. When did you all discover that you liked this kind of music, and do you all see Magic Fig as an outlet to pursue a specific kind of sound you couldn’t in your other groups?

IS: I didn’t really have much of a background in prog music before joining Magic Fig but loved the songs right away. They were very creative and evoked lots of interesting thoughts and emotions.

JC: After agreeing to be in this new band I asked Muzzy to make a playlist so I could get an idea of what kind of stuff we should do. I listened intently, spending hours by candlelight, pondering the harmonic language of all the greatest rock bands. Eventually I felt ready and purchased a moog.

Your self-titled debut album was really well received and led to some great shows for the band. Did the success of that first record inspire you to quickly record this second release?

IS: We were already writing and playing new songs by the time the first EP was being finalized, and wanted to keep the momentum going.

The instrumentation on “Valerian Tea” is incredibly unique and varied—mellotron, glockenspiel, a bunch of synths. Were you all already familiar with these instruments, or did you see this album as an opportunity to try them out?

JC: If Joel Robinow is the knight, I am the squire.

IS: I have mainly been a singer for most of my life and only played a bit of guitar here, glockenspiel/bells there. Magic Fig has given me an opportunity to challenge myself and add some instruments into the recordings and performance. I’m still very much a beginner at keys but it’s been fun. As a band, we definitely incorporated a lot more instrumentation into this album. The general methodology was to record every idea and then remove whatever sounded erroneous or “too much.”

From the visual elements of the album cover and the music videos, to the song titles and even how you present yourself live—this album feels very much steeped in the fantasy mythos. Are you all fantasy fans? If so, what books, video games, authors or movies are your favorites?

IS: Not so much fantasy for me, but I am a big fan of mythology, fairy tales, and various esoteric topics. Lately I’ve been seeking to build more of a connection to my witchy Slavic roots.

The album also evokes the classic San Francisco psychedelic sounds from the 60s and 70s. Any bands from that era serve as a particular inspiration for this album?

IS: A few personal favorites that come to mind are Skip Spence’s (of Moby Grape) fantastic solo album “Oar,” Jefferson Airplane’s “Surrealistic Pillow,” and “Cauldron” by Fifty Foot Hose. But I wouldn’t say we were directly inspired by that era of San Francisco sounds, to be honest.

JC: I get that being an SF band we should be influenced by that scene somewhat but we are more just influenced by the English and German bands of that era. Muzzy is a big dead head though and I dabble.

The album feels to have a connective tissue throughout. Would you consider this a concept album? It definitely feels like it takes you on a journey…

IS: We had previously decided that our first album followed the arc of the hero’s journey, and “Valerian Tea” feels similar; like a continuation of it.

I’m not going to lie—I assumed that Valerian Tea was something you all made up. But it’s a real thing. How did you all discover this drink and what prompted you to name the album after this concoction? Again, it definitely feels like it would be the drink of choice for a fantasy book character.

IS: It’s definitely a real thing! As a child in Ukraine I remember valerian extract in a tincture; my mom and grandma would take some drops diluted in water when they were feeling anxious or couldn’t sleep. Nowadays I drink valerian tea on occasion myself. It’s a root with a very pungent smell but if you can stomach it, it’s quite effective. The song “Valerian Tea” came together very quickly and naturally. Lyrically it’s an exploration of my childhood experiences and becoming friends with my shadow. We weren’t sure what to name the album but once I saw Muzzy’s painting for the front cover, it seemed fitting.

The short instrumental snippets—“Percolations,” “Riders at Dawn” and “Splinter”—seem like such important parts of the album. These moments of respite or reflection along this kind of musical voyage. Was it always the intention to add these short kinds of page breaks into the album when you were making “Valerian Tea”?

IS: These were originally introductions of the subsequent songs (“Pecolations / Valerian Tea”; “Riders at Dawn / Sensation Seeker”; “Splinter / Goblin”), but decided that they would work as standalone pieces.

JC: Sometimes a decision is made in a split second at the studio and it sticks and it’s like we never made the decision in the first place. Splitting these into their own tracks was one of those decisions.

Here’s an important question: How come more songs aren’t titled “Goblin”?

JC: My first choice was hobgoblin but it had too many syllables for the melody.

Ok—you have your album release show on December 13 at the 4 Star. Are you all pretty excited to share all these new songs live?

IS: We’re excited to have our record release show at 4 Star, especially since we had the record release show for the EP there last year, too. It’s such a special place, and I’m always very pleased and honored for an opportunity to perform there. Also thrilled to share the stage with Mayya, who will be playing her solo music with a full band, and abracadabra’s new dub duo arrangement.

JC: 🫡

Have you determined how you’re going to play them all live? The songs are very dense and layered, with many moving parts…

JC: We play them a little differently but it’s mostly the same. Muzzy and Matt improvise a lot so I make sure to play the underlying harmonic material so we don’t sound terrible.

IS: We have already played all but one of the songs on “Valerian Tea” live, and I think we’ve made the arrangements work nicely. I play some of my own vocal harmonies on the mellotron, and am bringing my little glockenspiel as well.

Any future live shows on the horizon? What about potential touring plans? Perhaps a West Coast jaunt?

IS: We’re playing at Gold Diggers in Los Angeles with Vinyl Williams and Tiny Music on January 17 and are currently planning the rest of the west coast tour which will take place later that month.

Show Details:
Magic Fig album release party presented by THrowin’ Bo’s, with abracadabra and Mayya
Where: 4 Star Theater
When: 8 p.m., Saturday, December 13
Tickets: $19, available here.

Will Reisman 11/6/25 Will Reisman 11/6/25

Broken Dreams Club Interview: No Joy

No Joy, the creative brainchild of Canadian musician Jasamine White-Gluz, is currently on tour behind the band’s excellent 2025 album “Bugland.” A captivating collection of IDM, shoegaze, 90s alt rock and metal, the album quite simply sounds like nothing out there at the moment.

Despite the various electronica elements to the record—there are beeps and bloops aplenty—“Bugland” feels strangely organic and earthy. White-Gluz attributes that natural sensibility to the recording process of the album, which she made in the rural hinterlands of Quebec along with her collaborator, Angel Marcloid, better known as Fire-Toolz.

Prior to No Joy’s November 11 show at Thee Stork Club in Oakland, White-Gluz answered questions from Broken Dreams Club via email:

The band just wrapped up a tour of the UK and Europe. How were those shows?

So amazing! It had been forever since we played over there and it was such a warm welcome. I can't wait to go back.

And now you have this string of West Coast shows coming up. How are you regrouping and preparing for this new tour?

We have about 72 hours in between tours so I am trying to get over jetlag while preparing for the next jetlag. I love sleeping so this is a challenge for me.

The No Joy sound is very dense and layered, with so many moving parts, digital snippets, samples and other elements usually perfected in a studio. How do you all translate that sound to a live setting? Is that part of the fun of performing these songs—deconstructing them to the point where a band can play them in front of audiences in an engaging and interesting way?

It's always a work in progress. “Bugland” wasn't created with a live set in mind, truthfully, so we spent the last year testing out the new songs to see what worked. The setup depends on so many factors, but for now we keep the set pretty rockin' and loud, giving the songs a different life in the live setting. Some songs off “Bugland” aren't ready to "hatch" live so to speak, so we'll be saving some of the album songs for the next tour.

“Bugland” is the first No Joy release in five years, and your first with Hand Drawn Dracula. What was it like working with the new label and was there any particular reason it took five years to write and record “Bugland”? (Not like five years is that long of a time now, with the recording industry model not really functioning anymore.)

We actually released “Motherhood” with Hand Drawn Dracula in Canada as well as the Wait to Pleasure re-issue so we are very familiar with the label and they are like family now. I take my time creating - I have phases where I am in writing mode, production mode, etc... and don't like to release anything that I am not 10000% confident in. I took my time developing my demos before even bringing them to Fire-Toolz, and then from there we spent many months working on them and getting them to the place where we were happy with them. I also spent time doing non-music related things, for the first time really. I started open water swimming, spending time in the garden, and really just getting inspired by new things. There were five years between “More Faithful” and “Motherhood” too, so that's maybe the length of time I need to take to make something I'm happy with.

This album is marked by your amazing partnership with Fire-Toolz. How did you and Angel first meet, and what made you want to work together with her for “Bugland”?

I discovered Angel's music and was just blown away by how both melodic and psychotic it was. It is a perfect blend of so many genres and evoked such visual imagery. I cold emailed her and asked if she would want to try working on some songs I had lying around. Whenever I collaborate, I really want everyone to push themselves and just do their thing, and it just happened that she and I were always on the same page and inspired each other a lot. She is an amazing talent, and I'm so fortunate to have been able to create with her.

This album seems to be inspired by everything from Caribou to Boards of Canada to 90s alternative rock acts. Was there a band or artist who had a particularly outsized impact on how this sound was shaped? Or was this completely the result of a couple of artists ensconcing themselves in the studio and shutting out all the noise? (It really sounds incredibly unique and timeless, in so many ways.)

I was not taking much inspiration from other music for this one, more so being inspired by the nature around me. I would say if any music inspired me during the process, it was more abstract; For example, we said, "let's make this song as if Boards of Canada were a noise band" and created from there. Angel and I had both respectively moved out of the cities we had lived in to more rural settings and really took inspiration from the new places we were in. Cheesy to say, but it was more inspired by the bugs, trees, weather, water, birds, fields around me.

“Garbage Dream House” is this really inspired track to lead off the album—within the first 40 seconds, you get a glimpse into the range of sounds and noises you’ll hear on the album. When you were recording that track, did you know immediately that it would be the album opener? Garbage seems like one of the bands that might have inspired this album—was that title a reference at all to the group?

While I absolutely adore Garbage (Shirley Manson is the icon!) I wasn't really listening to them when making this record. I was really just making sounds, trying not to be inspired musically by any particular band or era or anything. So maybe somewhere deep in my psyche there was an influence but it wasn't intentional at all. I love how this song feels like you are scanning the radio or something and it's almost as if there are two different songs that somehow clash together at the right time, one electronic and one rock, to make this new sound. It felt like the right opener to introduce the Fire-Toolz collaboration and it's a really fun one to play live.

“Jelly Meadow Bright” is this absolutely epic album closer. Similar to “Garbage Dream House” being a perfect opener, this just feels like a great way to leave the record. Again—did you know that this particular song would make for a great final track?

“Jelly Meadow Bright” was the last song we finished mixing for the album, and it just felt natural it should be the closer. I like how in Garbage Dream House there are these hints of Angel being there with the bleeps and bloops, and then the album culminates with her really taking more of a center stage of the performance. When she sent me the final mix, I was driving and out the window there was a double rainbow. What more of a sign do ya need?

So many of these songs have a collage-like feel to them. When there are so many different elements to each track, how do you know when something is a finished product?

It's hard to explain, but it's a gut feeling. There's no real way to quantify it, but I just get a sense that it's ready.

Ok—looking ahead to this show in Oakland. Are you excited to come back to the Bay Area? Do you feel like you get a nice reception when you play here?

Bay Area is definitely one of those "second home" places for me. I have so many friends there and that area was a spot that embraced No Joy early on, so I'm always happy to be back.

Show Details:
No Joy with Shaki Tavi
Where: Thee Stork Club
When: 8 p.m., Tuesday, November 11
Tickets: $18, available here.

Will Reisman 10/16/25 Will Reisman 10/16/25

Broken Dreams Club Interview: The Black Lips

Once seemingly destined to burn out early in a blaze of youthful self-destruction, Atlanta’s Black Lips are improbably celebrating their 26th year of existence. Better still, the band continues to churn out their vital, vibrant and unique brand of music, equally indebted to garage rock, lo-fi, psychedelic, doo-wop and rockabilly influences.

There isn’t a bad album in the Black Lips catalog, but their latest release, “Season of the Peach,” is one of the best records in their formidable history. The Black Lips' current iteration of guitarists Cole Alexander and Jeff Clarke, bassist Jared Swilley, drummer Oakley Munson and saxophone player Zumi Rosow is among the longest-running versions of the group and tellingly, the band has never sounded tighter or more cohesive.

In anticipation of their October 23 show at the Fox Theater opening for the Viagra Boys, Broken Dreams Club spoke with Black Lips bassist and co-founder Jared Swilley about inspirations for the new album, which touches upon everything from religion to European civil wars to doomed prison jailbreaks:

So, you guys recently wrapped up a massive tour in Europe. How did those shows go?

It was a very hectic schedule, but all the shows were very, very good. We started in the Netherlands and Belgium—like the Low Countries over there. And then Scandinavia for a week, and then Turkey and Greece and London, and a couple shows in France.

And now you’re starting up this American tour opening for Viagra Boys. How did you all connect with them?

I don't think I've ever met them. I don't know if anyone in the band knows them, either. We probably have some mutual friends. I think they just asked our agent if we wanted to go on tour and we said yeah. We’ll get to know them soon, though. Very well.

You guys are living all over the world now, right? You’re the only one still in Georgia? How do you all reconvene and prep before going on tours? Will there be a meeting point on the West Coast before you kick off these gigs?

Yeah—I’m in Georgia, Jeff is in Berlin, Oakley is in upstate New York, and Cole and Zumi are in LA. We always talk about maybe showing up a couple days before the tour starts for like a day or two of practice, but that's never happened. We just get together and do our thing. Our songs aren't that hard, and everyone's been in the band for long enough. Maybe if we were like a metal band, that approach wouldn’t work. But, you know, our music is pretty simple stuff.

The new album is called “Season of the Peach,” an obvious ode to your home state. Any particular inspiration behind that album title? Maybe a reminder that, despite the scattered locations of everyone now, you all are still an Atlanta band at heart?

We’ll always be a Georgia band because this is me and Cole's thing. We have a friend Andy Animal who kept pushing us to have a title that has something to do with peaches. And I kind of hated the idea at first, but he kept pushing us—and he’s our good friend, he directed one of our music videos—so eventually, I warmed up to it. I mean, I really love peaches—it’s kind of a cliche, but they’re my favorite fruit. You can get a banana all year, or an orange. Not a big deal. But technically, you can only get peaches for a couple months of the year, even here in Georgia. I always remember that last peach of the year, at the end of August. That’s kind of why summer has always been my favorite season—the peaches.

You all recorded this album at Oakley’s house in the Catskills, right? What was that experience like?

I mean, it's awesome. I don't know if I would want to record a different way anymore. It’s nice—it’s like this real hippie thing, where we're out in the woods and, yeah, I chop wood, and everyone takes turns cooking. And he has a ton of birds out there that Jeff takes charge of. He has, like, 30 geese and ducks and peacocks and stuff. And the main thing is, not being in a city, we can start whenever we want. The record before, we recorded in Paris, which was cool, but it's a really hectic city with pretty strict rules about only being able to record between 11 a.m. and 11 p.m.. Everyone has different schedules, too. I'm up at the crack of dawn, but some people sleep later, so it's just less pressure on everyone. When we’re in the studio, I'm constantly trying to figure out, ‘oh, this is costing X amount of money an hour.’ So, I was always just sweating stuff like that. We've done a record in New York before and that was cool, and we’re certainly not complaining about recording in New York or Paris, but it's just less hectic being in the country. It's just a different vibe—very chill. You don't have people stopping by. No one's going out to party at night.

The Black Lips have always been a very democratic collective—back to your earliest days, you always had multiple songwriters, but “Season of The Peach” is heavily indebted to you and Cole. Did you all just happen to have the most ideas for this album, or was this an intentional effort to focus the album on your songs?

We’ve never gone into an album with a set idea, like, this is what we're going to do. The only process we've ever had is basically everyone getting together and we write and record as many songs as we can. And then we just pick the ones that we think sound best. So, it's really just how it happens. Sometimes Cole and I will have more songs than others, and that’s just an organic thing. Our band has always been an open-writing project, where there's no main songwriter. And I like that—it makes it more of a collective.

Did it give you a little bit of a throwback feeling, partnering with Cole so much on this record? I mean, you and him have been making music together since you were teenagers.

Yeah—when I play music with him, it’s different than anyone else, just because I’m more comfortable with him than anyone. We literally discovered music together. I think we were 13 when we discovered punk rock together, so there is always going to be a different energy with us. But, you know, everyone else has been in the band for long enough to where we all have a pretty strong connection.

This current lineup has been one of the longest iterations of the band. What do you think is the key to that kind of longevity?

I guess because everyone still digs it and no one's gotten married and had kids. We’re all still pretty committed to the band.

Let’s talk about “Season of the Peach.” It’s a great album and is bookended by these two tracks, “The Illusion Part Two” and the “Illusion Part One,” which both seem surprisingly world-weary for a band like the Black Lips. A couple of questions there—what was behind the decision to start the album with Part Two and end with Part One, and why was it important to have those songs open and close out the album?

I think we started with Part Two, just because it was the wrong thing to do—that’s how we do things around here, pretty much. And I like having intros and outros to albums. I’ve never been much of an album guy, because I’m mostly into stuff from the 50s. But I like the idea of, not necessarily concept albums, because we don’t do those, but it’s fun to have an opening and closing song that has a connection, just to tie everything together.

“Kassandra” is one of the standout tracks from the album—it almost feels like a spiritual successor to “Katrina.” It tackles the Yugoslavian Civil War—a conflict that’s probably slipped off the radar for most people. Any reason to revisit that war now?

Well, I’ve spent a lot of time in Croatia and Serbia the past couple of years, So I heard a bunch of stories about it and I was dating someone that went through the war and everything. She told me stories about this Venezuelan soap opera called Kassandra, and it was, like, the most popular show in Yugoslavia. And so, when that show would come on, everyone would stop fighting for that hour. I think at one point, the show got canceled or taken off the air, but someone at the UN or somebody high up, basically begged the broadcaster to bring it back, because they needed that peace. I thought that was pretty cool. There was this really brutal war, but everyone was bonding over this kind of cheesy telenovela.

You guys tour so much and you do travel to countries that aren't on your typical touring circuit. Do you think it gives you this perspective that others might not have? That’s an amazing story, but I’m betting that most people out there today aren’t super familiar with the Yugoslav Wars.

You know, I have a ninth grade education, but I do think that getting out and seeing the world gives you a pretty good perspective. It gets you outside of your bubble. I grew up with a lot of people who were poor and couldn't travel—there’s obviously nothing with that. But I know a lot of people I went to school with who have never been on an airplane. I took a buddy of mine over to Europe two summers ago and he’s my age. He had never been on an airplane before. It’s kind of wild. Traveling gives you a better understanding of people. It shapes your worldview, in a better way, because you're exposed to more things and it’s just interesting to know about other stuff.

Ok, back to the album. “Baptism in the Death House,” is this great outlaw story that very much fits within the Black Lips’ catalog of offbeat, wild characters—these Southern Gothic tales. Is Roy Settles a real person or kind of amalgamation of various bandits you heard about growing up?

It's a true story. All the men in my family were preachers or still are preachers, and my great-grandfather was a pretty big time preacher in South Carolina. In the early 30s, at the South Carolina State Penitentiary, there were these six prisoners and Roy Settles was one of them. They planned an escape from this prison, and they took a prison guard hostage. There was a day-long standoff, and eventually the cops started shooting tear gas, and a guard got killed in the melee. So, all six guys got sentenced to death. And they actually executed them all at the same time. It was the largest mass execution in South Carolina state history. And my great grandpa got called and stayed with them the whole night before. He did all his preaching stuff, and said all the prayers with them. And five of the guys chose to accept Jesus and repent or whatever. But this one guy, Roy Settles kept spitting on the ground and said he'd be happier in hell. My grandfather ended up writing a book about it—it was called something like the “Tale of Five Men Who Repented and the One Who Didn’t.’ But he preached on that story forever. He was able to lead five men to Jesus, but one just said ‘fuck you, your shit sucks.’

You guys have never really shied away from tackling thorny religious issues. You obviously grew up in the church--what’s the Black Lips’ stance on organized religion?

I can't speak for anyone else. I know Cole loves gospel music, as do I. A lot of my favorite singers and musicians grew up in the same church I grew up in. People like Jerry Lee Lewis and Elvis and Little Richard and James Brown—all those guys came from the same kind of Pentecostal church I grew up in. I felt a kind of kinship with that and it was easy to reconcile with. And my dad is very, very liberal, but he used to be a mega church preacher. He came out of the closet about a decade ago, but before that, he was getting heat in the Atlanta press for some of our behavior. The articles weren’t exactly bad, but it was not stuff you'd want your preacher dad to read or everyone in his church, right? But I always said to him, ‘I'm kind of doing the same thing as you.’ Like, I’m an entertainer, and I'm on stage and same with him.

But as far as organized religion goes, I was never brought up in a super judgmental home. Even before my dad came out, he never believed that anyone was going to hell. And that was kind of controversial. But it very much shaped my experience with religion, which was very compassionate and nice. I saw it as a great support system for a lot of people who were pretty down and out. I always thought it was a force for good. Now, there's other stuff I don't like about religion and you can probably imagine what I’m talking about, but my experience with it was always good.

I grew up in a full gospel Pentecostal church, so there would be people freaking out at like, nine in the morning. They call it getting drunk on the Holy Spirit, like having seizures and screaming and my dad would hit people on the head and they'd fall down. I just remember being like, if I could bottle just 5% of this energy into a Black Lips show, it would be amazing. But we’re singing about rock and roll and cars, and the church is singing about saving your eternal soul, so we can’t really compete.

After “Baptism in the Death House,” is Cole’s song “Tippy Tongue.” I think one of the most underrated aspects of the Black Lips is your obvious appreciation for 50s and 60s doo-wop groups (“Hatman” is another great example.) There is always going to be a garage rock and lo-fi and southern rock tinge to your songs, but these girl groups, like the Supremes and the Crystals, seem to be a major influence. Is there a shared love within the group for those kinds of outfits?

I would say they are really special to me, more so than anyone else in the band, although Cole's really into that stuff as well. This guy I work with asked me if I was listening to anything new, and I was like, ‘man, I've listened to the same shit for years, now.’ It’s just doo-wop and old rockabilly stuff. I used to be more involved in finding the new stuff, but at this point, I’m too old to be going to concerts all the time. I work full time when I’m at home and have to be up at 6 a.m. so I can’t stay out late or anything. That said, I really like this French band, La Femme. And I’m sure there are a lot of other great bands out there, but I just don’t get out as much.

Sounds very reasonable. So, we talked last year about the band celebrating 25 years. Are you all due for another 25 more? Be just like the Rolling Stones, performing out there forever?

You know, I'm not gonna say where we’re gonna be 25 years from now, but I don’t see any reason why we can’t keep this thing going for the foreseeable future. We have a pretty good balance right now. Our last tour was great, this next one should be pretty cool, so I don’t see any reason to stop. We’re not going to tour 10 months a year like we used to, but we’ll still probably tour more than most bands do.

Ok—looking ahead to this show in Oakland. Are you guys excited to return to the Bay Area? Have you ever played the Fox before?

We’ve never played the Fox in Oakland. We have a Fox in Atlanta, and we got to play there recently and that was like a dream come true. Even before we started, my goal was always to play the Fox in Atlanta one day. We had my high school prom there, even though I wasn't in school at the time. So, that was a cool thing. My dad got to go to the show—it was his birthday. And we played the Fox in Detroit one time, but I didn't realize there was a Fox in Oakland. Either way, we’re super excited to play there.

I’ve seen you guys play in countless venues here—Rickshaw Stop, Great American Music Hall, Bottom of the Hill—even saw you at Public Works, which is now a dance venue. Do you have a favorite spot to play here? And what’s your favorite thing to do when visiting the Bay?

I always like playing the Great American Music Hall. It's been a while since we've been there, but it’s such a pretty club. When we go to San Francisco, we always eat a lot of great food and hang out with our friend, Kristin, who owns this shop called Vacation. We’ll hang out with her and grab some Chinese food and explore the city.

You’ve got this tour for the next month or so. Will you be returning for a headlining slot in the near future?

I don't love touring in the winter, because it's just not that much fun. I think this might be it for us for the year. But we'll tour behind the album more starting next year. We’ll definitely make it back to San Francisco.

Show Details:
Black Lips with the Viagra Boys
Where: Fox Theater
When: 8 p.m., Thursday, October 23
Tickets: Sold out!

Will Reisman 8/11/25 Will Reisman 8/11/25

Broken Dreams Club Interview: Wild Pink

Wild Pink, the ambient, heartland rock outfit headed by chief songwriter John Ross, is currently touring behind their outstanding 2024 album, “Dulling the Horns,” one of the absolute best records of last year. Continuing the band’s tradition of melding quiet, hushed moments of intimacy with bold, dynamic flourishes, “Dulling the Horns” also showcased a newfound musical muscularity for the band, adding yet another exciting dimension to Wild Pink’s ever-evolving oeuvre.

After opening for MJ Lenderman at the Independent in February, Ross and company are returning to San Francisco for a headlining performance at Bottom of the Hill on Thursday with Steakhouse and Fake Your Own Death.

Broken Dreams Club recently caught up with Ross–one of the truly, truly nicest musicians around–for a Q&A session that drifted away from the more traditional interview topics:

You guys have been basically touring nonstop for more than a year now. That is A TON of time in the van. What’s been the group’s go-to tour albums for the road?

We actually don’t really listen to stuff in the van!

Any podcasts make it into the regular rotation? Or are you guys strictly tunes?

Lately I’ve been listening to Otherworld. I also really love Ghost Stories For The End Of The World.

All those miles means a whole lot of potential opportunities to eat some disgustingly glorious (or gloriously disgusting?) fast food. If Wild Pink ends up capitulating to the fast food craving, what’s your spot? If not, what kind of grub are you looking to enjoy while touring?

If we’re in the mood, Del Taco is probably the go-to. We try to keep it pretty healthy though and hit up a Whole Foods or something in the mornings.

You’re a self-avowed Bills fan. This is a huge year for the franchise. Will they FINALLY break through this season and win the Super Bowl?

This is a question for Dan Keegan, the drummer! He’s the most devout Bills fan I’ve ever met. I think any season with Josh Allen is a shot at the Super Bowl though.

You called Florida home for years. Has that resulted in any uncomfortable conversations about the Dolphins with your Floridian pals?

I don’t know any Dolphins fans! Only Jags fans.

Keeping on the topic of sports—you’re one of the taller indie rock heroes in the game. You ever play any hoops as a kid?

I was on the A team in the 8th grade and played in one game for a minute or two, but that’s about it.

Last sports question, I promise, but gotta ask about this: your former touring mate MJ Lenderman is another tall musician with a penchant for writing about basketball—who wins a one-on-one contest between you two?

I think Jake would probably kick my ass at 1 v 1 bball, but I’m trying to get him to play tennis with me.

So now you’re in New York, but you spent your childhood in the DC Area. As someone with lived experiences in all these spots, give me a couple of pluses and minuses for the Northeast, the South, and the Mid-Atlantic Coast.

The South has great air conditioning, strip malls and grocery stores. The Northeast generally has better restaurants and bars, though. The Mid-Atlantic pretty much just has Camden Yards and blue crabs. If I had to rank the three I’d say 1. North 2. South 3. Mid-Atlantic.

What was the first show you went to as a kid? Who were your favorite bands and artists growing up?

First real show I went to was at the House of Blues in Orlando, which was Primus and Incubus with Buckethead opening. Also saw Dropkick Murphys with Lars Frederickson opening there.

The New York Times recently released their list of best movies of the 21st Century. Have you had a chance to scope out this list—if so, any thoughts? Any major omissions? (I contend they dropped the ball big time by failing to include MacGruber.)

Where’s ‘The Town’??

Ok here’s a speed round interlude for themed Wild Pink questions:

Have you ever eaten an egg whole, and if so, how was it prepared? Nope.
Have you ever visited Stonehenge? Yes!
Who’s the best-ever Dracula actor? Gary Oldman.
What’s prettier to look at—a cloud or a mountain? One that looks like the other.
How would you describe a Wild shade of Pink? Is it more akin to salmon? Or flamingo? Coral!

And we’re back. I know the masses have been ABSOLUTELY CLAMORING* for me to update this list of the top 100 “indie” albums I put together in 2021. When I do get around to making changes, “A Billion Little Lights” will be one of a handful of recent albums (we’re talking maybe five) that will crack the coveted top 100. Are there any albums from the past five years that would you include in your own mythical “Top 100” list?

In no order: “Genevieve” by Fust, “Box For Buddy, Box For Star” by This is Lorelei, “Beehive Cathedral” by Joseph Decosimo, Like Richardson and Cleek Shrey, and “Appalachia Borealis” by Phil Cook

*The “masses” being my friends Scott and Johnny and “clamoring” meaning they asked me once.

You’ve been coming to this city for years. What’s your favorite thing to do in San Francisco?

Probably going to Oracle Park or getting a Mai Tai at Li Po.

What about a favorite venue to play here?

Bottom of the Hill for sure.

And keeping on the local topic, lets end on a fun one—favorite SF band of all time?

Ohh…I guess Third Eye Blind or Dead Kennedys.

Actually, let’s end on a super wholesome note—what’s the best thing about being a dad?

Taking my baby on a walk to get morning coffee is probably one of my favorite things.

Show Details:
Wild Pink with Steakhouse and Fake Your Own Death
Where: Bottom of the Hill
When: 8 p.m., Thursday, August 14
Tickets: $20, available here.

Will Reisman 6/18/25 Will Reisman 6/18/25

Broken Dreams Club Interview: Whitney’s Playland

In 2023, Whitney’s Playland released their dazzling debut album, “Sunset Sea Breeze,” one of the best records of that year. A collection of lo-fi pop nuggets and janglepop gems, the album showcased the vibrant creative partnership of founding members George Tarlson and Inna Showalter, longtime friends and veterans of the Bay Area music scene.

After a quiet 2024, the band recently reemerged with a show at the Four Star Theater on May 30 and on Friday they’ll release a 7” EP, “Long Rehearsal,” through Meritorio Records and Dandy Boy Records. Now a solid four piece with the addition of multi-instrumentalist Paul DeMartini and drummer Evan Showalter, the band will play selections from that new album as part of a record release party on Saturday at the Edinburgh Castle, alongside local mainstays Black Thumb, Mister Baby and Rhymies.

Broken Dreams Club recently connected with Showalter and Tarlson over email to catch up with the band and get some more details on the songs behind “Long Rehearsal.”

It’s been more than two years since the release of the amazing Whitney’s Playland debut album, “Sunset Sea Breeze.” What have you two been up to since that record came out?

Whitney’s Playland (WP): Our last show was in September of 2023, and we went on hiatus for a little while after George and Rachel’s son, Leo, was born in October 2023. By early 2024, we were working on writing and recording the songs that are on the new 7”. For the rest of 2024, we worked on recording and mixing the songs. In early 2025, we started practicing again in anticipation of releasing the EP. During our hiatus, Inna’s other band Magic Fig released their debut record and wrote and recorded their second album.

Your new EP, “Long Rehearsal,” which is out this Friday, was recorded as a four piece, correct? As opposed to “Sunset Sea Breeze,” which was written and recorded primarily as an effort between just the two of you, right?

WP: Yes, this EP was definitely more of a collaborative project.

What was that like? How was it different to have Paul [DeMartini] and Evan [Showalter] involved in the creative process from the start?

WP: On “Sunset Sea Breeze,” a lot of the songs were brought to the project fully formed by George, while a couple were melodic and lyrical collabs between George and Inna. For the new EP, Inna wrote many of the lyrics, and Paul, Evan and Inna each contributed to the instrumentation and structure of the songs. Writing the EP was great! We really enjoy and get lost in the process of recording. Everyone has a unique ear for what’s happening in the song, and we’re all on the same page with adding our contributions in the effort to make the song as good as it can be.

Were the songs still written and composed by you two? Or did Paul and Evan help with that as well?

George Tarlson (GT): Inna and I split the lyric writing duties. I wrote the original concepts for the music but the band finished the instrumentation together.

Inna Showalter (IS): George had already written a lot of the music for “Long Rehearsal” and “Talk” and written all the music, vocal melodies, and lyrics for “Only Daughter.” He had shared the demo for “Long Rehearsal” with me a while earlier and I quickly came up with vocal and lyrical ideas, which George helped cement, and that little keyboard melody on the second verse, which Paul executed. We weren’t sure how to start the song, and Evan’s drum fill was a fitting addition for the intro. “Talk” was definitely the most collaborative effort. Everybody was very involved with writing and arranging that track.

The title track is a great way to kick off the EP. It’s a piece of janglepop bliss and Inna’s voice is so clear and stirring. Particularly on this song, the production feels like it’s stepped up a bit—was there a concerted effort to “clean up” the sound for this EP?

GT: Thanks! We record all our music in our home studios, which has worked great for us so far. I love how the first record's sound was a little funky and hopefully memorable, but I'm very happy with the sound of the new record. We took our time with it to try to make sure things were how we wanted them. We used more microphones on the drums and spent more time tracking and editing than we did on the first album.

IS: Yes, we definitely took our time with these. We recorded the main tracks all together at George’s and added overdubs and additional ideas later. Sometimes we’d get together to work on the songs, or we’d record portions at home as ideas came up and send them to each other, adding what we liked to the final project and removing what didn’t work. There was a lot of exploration and experimentation.

I also love that the opening track is so short—a very Guided By Voices (or Tony Molina) approach there. How important was it to start the EP with a real direct, concise track?

George: I'm not really sure we thought about it that much. The band has always tried to write collections of songs with some contrast, different textures, and different lengths. “Long Rehearsal” is a shorty for sure.

The video for that song is great. Whose idea was that story? (Also, love George’s skateboarding skills—very impressive!)

IS: I remember the day the idea was born. Kittie (Krivacic) and I were at the SF Botanical Garden talking about the new songs, which we had just finished recording. Kittie is an extremely talented filmmaker. We had always wanted to collaborate on a project together, and this seemed like a great opportunity to finally make it happen. She first came up with the idea of me singing on the vintage F train car. Later that day I shared the idea with Evan, and on the spot he came up with the plot for the video: I travel across the city with a mysterious suitcase, while the rest of the band tries to track me down. I ultimately added the bit at the end where we see ourselves playing the song inside of the suitcase. It came together in a really fun way, and of course paid homage to my favorite city. I’d grown up taking the F car and always been enamored with those beautiful, colorful old trains. It turned out exactly how I envisioned it and was a very fun creative collaboration.

“Only Daughter” seems like a pretty funny little ditty about being an outlier in a community that’s not super open to strangers. Was that narrative based on real-life experiences? Or is Lydia a character dreamed up out of the blue?

GT: “Only Daughter” was loosely based on a real neighbor of mine who came around and made quite an impression on me for being a very loopy, funny, outgoing, old artist. It’s a portrait of her in song. Although the song sort of took on a life of its own and isn’t really about that person anymore.

I wanted to write something with a 50’s ballad influence (I was listening to a lot of that at the time). The song is set in the backdrop of the suburbs, where the cultural norm is to be a little boring. When you run into someone who fights against that, it’s like a breath of fresh air. I grew up in the suburbs and I guess I still live there, although El Cerrito is very multicultural and just a BART ride away from the City.

And in contrast to the “Long Rehearsal,” is “Talk,” which is the longest song you all have ever recorded. The latter half of the track in particular is very exploratory and improvisational, with these interesting sonic manipulations and unique instrumental arrangements (it sounds like there is a xylophone in there?) What was it like making that song—did it feel nice to loosen the reins a little bit and push the envelope beyond the typical Whitney’s Playland structure?

GT: “Talk” is a song that took a long time to come together. We're pretty proud of the end result though. We really tried to play with the layers of instrumentation that made up the song. Mixing it was really hard because of that!

IS: When George showed me his guitar demo for “Talk” I immediately loved it and a concept for it came to my mind right away, but when it came down to executing it, nothing seemed to stick. I came up with several versions of the vocals and lyrics but none of them ever seemed to really convey what I was trying to capture. There were multiple times when I almost gave up. Sometimes there’s those songs that “don’t want to write themselves” as my friend Muzzy once put it. Ultimately I think the frustration and delay played into the theme of the song itself, which is quite fitting. Paul came over and we sat at the keyboard together trying to workshop parts. The whole time I was hearing these extra little melodies in my head overlapping with the original movements of the song and I ended up recording those on the glockenspiel. Evan added shakers and tambourine. We kept layering additional instrumentation to fill out the parts that needed something extra. When Paul added what we now lovingly refer to as the “Chris Isaak” guitars after the bridge, the song felt complete. I think all the experimentation and trial and error allowed us to grow as a band in a way that wouldn’t have happened otherwise. And of course it was extremely satisfying when it was finally finished.

The lyrics on “Talk” seem to detail the futility of the spoken word—how what we say will never quite match what we feel. Am I reading that correctly? And if so, how do you all grapple with that disconnect as songwriters—creative people whose work is predicated in large part by an effort to connect with others?

IS: Yes, exactly. This song is about how words can never fully express what one is feeling or experiencing. It’s definitely a concept I grapple with as a songwriter. I’m a very private person. My voice and my lyrics are what really reveal who I am, and I’m constantly plagued with thoughts of “what if this gets taken the wrong way?” This is in essence what the song is about - our interpersonal relationships and the fundamental misunderstandings that occur between us and even those closest to us, due to the nature of being human. We are all in our own subjective realities and have only our words to convey our experience to others, which is inherently flawed and lacking. Still, we can’t help but try.

Do you all have any plans to release a full-length album, now that you have put out this EP?

GT: Right now, we're just going to play some fun shows this Summer. You haven't heard the last of Whitney's Playland though.

I just saw you play at the 4 Star Theater, which was your first performance in a few years. What was that experience like, being back onstage after such an extended absence?

GT: It felt great to be back together again! Good turnout, good bands, good venue. You gotta love it.

IS: 4 Star is such a special venue. It’s an honor to be able to perform at this beautiful magical theatre that’s seen so much history in this city of ours. It’s quite different from performing in other venues in that the audience is sitting down, everyone is quiet, and you can’t make out anyone’s faces except those in the front row. It does make me more nervous than performing at a bar for example, that has more of a laid-back vibe, but I do really enjoy the feeling of theatrical reverence that I get from being on that stage. I was thrilled to open for Hectorine at their record release; I’ve always really admired Sarah and loved sharing the stage with her and her lovely talented bandmates. I also really enjoyed David’s fantastic performance as Plastic Candles. The projections were spot on for all three acts, and I am always so grateful for the hospitality of Syd and the rest of the 4 Star crew.

You’re playing a record release party at the Edinburgh Castle with a stacked lineup of other local acts on June 21. Any other shows planned in the near future?

IS: Edinburgh Castle is one of my favorite venues and brings back a lot of fond memories from my younger years. Zack & Nick have been putting on some great shows there lately and we were lucky enough to play their first one back in 2023. We’re very excited to be back again, with friends Rhymies, Black Thumb, and Mister Baby!

GT: We have a few shows booked through the summer. We're playing August 2 at the Little Hill Lounge in El Cerrito with Ryli and Tony Jay. August 23, were playing with Aluminum and Welcome Strawberry at the 4 Star Theater.

Any other projects you all are working on at the moment? Inna—you’ve been busy with Magic Fig—any new announcement regarding that band?

IS: There’s some figgy magic in the works - stay tuned! ;)

Show Details:

Whitney’s Playland with Black Thumb, Mister Baby and Rhymies
Where: The Edinburgh Castle
When: 8 p.m., Saturday, June 21
Tickets: $10, available at the door

Will Reisman 3/20/25 Will Reisman 3/20/25

Broken Dreams Club Interview: This is Lorelei

For years, Nate Amos uploaded hundreds of scrappy, fuzzy tunes to the Bandcamp account of his recording moniker, This Is Lorelei. Essentially demo recordings, the songs provided a glimpse of a prolific musician with a profound range, unafraid to explore any genre or sound.

In 2024, Amos finally formalized those recordings, releasing his first “official” album as This is Lorelei. The record—“Box for Buddy, Box For Star,” is the culmination of those intriguing early recordings, showcasing a boundless talent.

Featuring dust bowl folk songs, heartfelt indie pop tracks, glitchy electronica numbers, club bangers and anthemic love ballads, “Box for Buddy, Box For Star” was one of the best releases of last year and brought welcome new attention to the talents of Amos, who also stars as one-half of the avant garde duo, Water From Your Eyes.

On Thursday, April 3, This is Lorelei—now a three-piece band—will perform songs from “Box For Buddy, Box For Star” at Café du Nord. The show will be presented by local production outfit Throwin’ Bo’s.

Broken Dreams Club spoke with Amos about the background of the record, feeling inspired by Shane MacGowan and Elliott Smith and what’s next for This Is Lorelei and Water From Your Eyes.

Ok, you’ve got another round of gigs starting up this weekend. How are you prepping for this latest batch of live shows?

Well, with the kind of live form Lorelei is in right now, I basically tour and then kind of come back with a revision. It’s taken a while to figure out exactly what to do with it, because the project is so kind of scatterbrained in terms of instrumentation. It’s been an interesting process to figure that out. But I think it seems like the answer is always simplicity. I have someone playing lead guitar now, so I just play acoustic guitar and sing and don't worry about other stuff. And it's gotten way more fun and interesting for me.

I was looking up videos of our shows from earlier this year. It was just you and an acoustic guitar, right?

That’s what we did in January, yeah. There have been some other setups as well. I did one tour as a power trio last year, where I was playing electric guitar and trying to do double duty vocals and lead guitar. It’s just really fun to have someone else worry about one of those.

Was last year your first kind of “proper” This is Lorelei live shows?

I guess it depends on what you mean by proper. Lorelei has existed for a long time. Back in the day in Chicago, there was a really chaotic live Lorelei band. I think the biggest performance was 10 or 11 people one time. If you kind of knew the songs, I would basically enlist you to join in the band. As long as there was a bass player and a drummer, I would just book a show. And then I would tell everyone else, basically, show up if you want. That yielded a couple of really fun moments and a host of bad performances. And then, for years, I just did karaoke sets. I didn't even have any of the words memorized. It would just look at the computer and stand there and sing. So, It's really been the last year or two that the live band has really developed.

Got it. So, back to the beginning—you’ve been recording songs under the This is Lorelei moniker for years and uploading a ton of those tracks to Bandcamp. What prompted the decision last year to finally release an “official” This is Lorelei album?

It was a combination of things. For a long time, Lorelei was more of a demo idea sandbox. If I had a really good idea from Lorelei, I would just lift it for another project. That still applies to Water From Your Eyes. At least a handful of things from every Water From Your Eyes album are kind of just plucked up from This is Lorelei. It wasn’t really until the last couple of years that it felt like Lorelei developed an actual direction of its own, separate from me personally. It kind of just became more and more of a focus. Before, I would just put a song up on Spotify or Bandcamp whatever, without doing any press or anything. And my manager got really frustrated with me. He was like, ‘dude, let me shop one of these.’ This was honestly the first album where I worked on it hard enough that I didn't want to just put it out without any kind of notice.

And how are you able to differentiate these songs from Water From Your Eyes songs, or My Idea songs? There is something distinct about This is Lorelei, but the musical tastes on “Box for Buddy, Box For Star” run the absolute gamut—I mean so much is covered here. When you have such a wide range like that, how are you able to determine what makes sense for This is Lorelei?

I guess it’s basically a gut reaction. At this point, I kind of have my Lorelei brain and Water brain. This is obviously a question that comes up a lot. The answer that I tend to give is it's kind of like playing two different sports. There is the basic idea and scope of things you could possibly do that are similar, but there are different objectives and different muscle groups being used. And the way it's kind of naturally evolved is that Water From Your Eyes is a kind of exercise in rejecting tradition. Whereas Lorelei has kind of turned into a thing where it really is more about embracing existing songwriting archetypes. If I didn't have separate outlets for those two things, I don't know if anything would work. It would probably just be a mess.

I know you’ve discussed this topic ad nauseam, so apologies for bringing it back up again, but you’ve talked about making this music while sober, which must have been incredibly daunting at first. Did that process get easier as you kept going? Were you able to really convince yourself that you could do this thing?

It was an odd period of time for me and getting sober was a big part of it. There are a lot of things you have to do in the aftermath of long term substance abuse, in terms of just mental health. Once you kick your thing, you have to learn how to be a person without it. And at that point, I still hadn't really done that. The only thing that I could do was obsessively get into my music. Ultimately, the reason this album got so much time poured into it, is because I was desperately looking for anything to do that wasn't working on my actual self. I wouldn't say it was easy, but I was very focused, at least.

So, in its own way, was this process therapeutic?

I try not to rely on that too much, because I spent too many years being like, ‘I don't need to do therapy, because I can express myself through my art’. I mean, that's kind of the ultimate cliche. There/s weight to that, but it can also be such a cop out. I know I've used it as a cop out.

I think everyone was just amazed at the wild diversity of songs on “Box for Buddy, Box For Star,” and I love that you start the album off with a real curveball track—this lonesome cowboy, tears-in-my-beer country tune, “Angel’s Eye.” That’s such an amazing tune, but clearly not indicative of the entire album. What made you want to kick off the record with that song?

I'm a sucker for a good red herring. That’s something I tend to do, but not to be deceiving. There’s a balance to it—I wouldn’t want to use really stylistically different songs at the start of an album in a way where it's just like, ‘check out how different I can sound!’ That wasn't the intention with this album at all. One of the things I was thinking about at the time was how a lot of albums tend to start in this very focused place, and then kind of drift off towards the end in different directions. I wanted to harness that same dynamic curve, but invert it. In a lot of ways, stylistically, this album is way more cohesive in the second half. It kind of begins as this ball bouncing back and forth—an up and down thing. And then the ball stops bouncing as high and kind of settles into this very comfortable place where that album lands. For me, the final resting place of the album was always [album closer] “An Extra Beat For You And Me”—that was kind of the point of the whole process. That’s the song that I feel like I wrote this whole album to get to. And “Angel’s Eye” and “Perfect Hand” were the two songs that were most different stylistically, so I think they worked best in the beginning of the album. I didn’t want to cut those songs because there wasn’t a good place for them, so I put them one-two in the sequencing.

And I’m going to spare you from going over this whole album, track-by-track, because I really could, but I wanted to touch base on a few of them. “Dancing in the Club” was one of my favorite songs of last year and it has this immortal line in there—“But a loser never wins/ And I'm a loser, always been.” I love it because it claims ownership over that. Indie music is supposed to be for losers and this song really feels like it belongs to indie fans. Did you have it in mind for this song to be a kind of defiant mantra?

Yeah—that’s the joke. It’s a club song by a person who would never get into the club. That song is funny because it ended up being produced in such a hyper specific style, even though it came from a place of simplicity. I was trying to write melodies that would function on their own without the assistance of any chord progression or things. I wrote about 90% of the melody and lyrics to that song walking around outside with nothing else going on. I like the idea of melody that sounds just natural when you’re humming it, walking through the woods. When you go that route, the lyrics that tend to fall into place have a certain melancholy. I was listening to a ton of Shane MacGowan at the time. Someone had sent me “Fairytale of New York,” which I had somehow never heard before—because a song on a Lorelei album reminded them of it. And then I went down this Shane MacGowan rabbit hole and thought to myself, ‘fuck, I have not written a real song in my life.” I've written joke songs, essentially, and he was someone who's tapping into the essence of the human condition that's relevant in rock music but also feels ancient. Basically, I listened to Shane MacGowan, had a panic attack, and realized I needed to write a good song.

I saw MJ Lenderman perform a cover of that song a few weeks ago. I know you two are friends. He has an interesting downtempo take, which I thought was great. What were your initial reactions to his version?

I heard him do it before he was playing it live and thought it was really cool. He’s got that voice—that very specific vocal delivery that can just communicate emotion. There are lots of really good singers who don't have that. There are lots of really bad singers who are great at singing, because they do have that. And he’s a great singer. I’d never really written a song with the idea of someone else covering so fundamentally in mind, before writing “Dancing in the Club.”

So, you wrote that song with the idea that it could specifically be covered by MJ Lenderman?

Not specifically by him, but I did have the idea that it could be covered. You want to write a song that other people want to sing—artistically, that's the dream. To have one of your songs leak through into the canon of songs that people play when they think of songs to play. That’s one half of the dream. The other half of it is like—it’d be really nice to have a cash cow.

Next stop, Sabrina Carpenter is covering that one.

Exactly. Or some country dude. And that's why it was really cool hearing Jake [MJ Lenderman] play it, because he showed it could be transposed into that country sound. For me, the main mark of a certain kind of song that is really good, is how it translates into being done in different styles.

My favorite song of last year was “Where’s Your Love Now.” It reminds me of a modern day Beach Boys song and it feels to me equally about finding power in sobriety and emotional independence, outside of a relationship. Was that a ripped-from-the-headlines experience? Is that song autobiographical?

Yeah, I would say that song, at least more than anything else, was an autobiographical one. Most of the songs on the album are, it's just a question of how many layers removed they are. Sometimes it works better to push it a little further away, like “Angel’s Eye”, which kind of has its own narrative, or “Perfect Hand”, which just devolves into wordplay. But “Where’s Your Love Now” was definitely one that I wanted to remove as many of those layers as possible. I wasn't trying to write any particular kind of thing, but that’s just what happens sometimes. A lot of these songs went from not existing to being fully recorded and largely mixed in two or three hours. Nothing good ever comes from sitting down and trying to write a song. In my experience, it just has to happen organically, and then you have to latch on to that moment.

Again—you have such a wide range of sounds and approaches and genres on the album and there seem to be countless influences. One of the few songs that I view as having a direct forebear is “Two Legs,” which has this very Elliott Smith, “XO” feel to it. Were you listening to him at the time of making this album? Did he have an impact on the sound of that particular song at least?

He's someone who’s deeply ingrained in my songwriting. When I was about 15, someone gave me a copy of “Figure 8” on CD, and that blew my mind. His sense of arrangements on the “XO” and “Figure 8” period is something that has always stuck with me. I mean, with Elliott Smith, you can't be a guy who double tracks your softly sung vocals without that being the first thing that everyone thinks about. I knew what I was doing, but it actually started off as more of a Ram/Wings thing really, which sort of overlaps with Elliott Smith. In terms of production style, I was definitely thinking of Paul McCartney primarily, but I doubt I could have made it through that whole thing without at least thinking of Elliott Smith a few times.

I read that you view This is Lorelei as kind of a low-priority side project. Are you surprised at all that the album has resonated the way that it has?

It’s been a shocker. Because Lorelei predates Water From Your Eyes by five years or so. It’s the oldest running thing of mine, and so I'm very used to it not being something that elicits any sort of response, which I was always fine with, because it was kind of my secret thing. But I do feel like it turned into a more serious project at some point, slowly over the last five years. I'm really glad that it's happening on this album, as opposed to some of the others.

You’ve always been super prolific—have you been working on follow-up This is Lorelei songs to this album? What about Water From Your Eyes?

I'm kind of constantly flipping back and forth. I'm working on writing new Lorelei stuff now and the next Water From Your Eyes album is done—it’s in the bag. The idea is to alternate years with those projects, at least as long as I can keep up with it.

So, Water From Your Eyes will be touring and putting out an album out this year?

Yeah—it’s going to come out later this year—it'll be announced soon. There’s a bunch of stuff planned for this year for Water From Your Eyes and I would love for another Lorelei album to come out next year, in 2026.

Are you excited to be coming back to San Francisco? Water from Your Eyes has played here plenty. But I think this will be the first This is Lorelei appearance?

This is going to be the first time that Lorelei has played any further west than Chicago, unless I'm forgetting something. I'm really excited to be playing in San Francisco. It’s funny how different touring can feel with different bands. I never really realized that until this last Lorelei tour. I'm so used to going on tour as Water From Your Eyes, which has a very specific headspace to be in every night. And it's just different touring with Lorelei. But I think we are all excited to be coming out to California now.

Show Details:
This is Lorelei with Starcleaner Reunion
Where: Café Du Nord
When: 8 p.m., Thursday, April 3
Tickets: $27, available here.

Will Reisman 2/5/25 Will Reisman 2/5/25

Broken Dreams Club Interview: Stuart Murdoch

As the chief songwriter for beloved Glaswegian indie-pop group Belle and Sebastian, Stuart Murdoch has created some of the most memorable musical characters of the past 30 years.

Whether illustrating a teenager’s love for equines, speculating on the sexual orientation of a professional baseball player, documenting a trove of irreverent sinners, lamenting the lost potential of brilliant artists or cataloging despondent loners, Murdoch has long demonstrated a singular capacity for world-building in four-minute time frames.

So, it should come as no surprise that he’s written his first novel.

Largely autobiographical the novel, “Nobody’s Empire,” captures the protagonist, Stephen, as he battles myalgic encephalomyelitis (commonly referred to as chronic fatigue syndrome), an ailment that Murdoch has contended with for more than 30 years. In the novel–named after a 2019 Belle and Sebastian song–Stephen befriends another isolated teen, Kira, before eventually setting off for a transformative trip to California–events that mirror Murdoch’s life.

On Monday, February 10 at The Chapel, Murdoch will sit down with Slumberland Records founder Mike Schulman and local artist Nommi Alouf to discuss “Nobody’s Empire.”

Prior to that, Murdoch spoke with Broken Dreams Club about the challenges of his illness, visiting San Francisco, transitioning into novel writing and what’s next for him and his band.

For starters—how is this book tour going? How has the experience been so far?

It’s working out great—I'm really enjoying it. I mean that in a practical sense. I'm a bit under the weather at the moment, so that's the kind of downside. But then the upside is everything else. It feels like I’m just travelling around, carrying a suitcase full of stories with And with the format so far, it’s almost like an American football game, with four quarters. I start with doing readings and we play some music clips. Then we do the interview with the host and I then play some songs acoustically. And then we finish with a Q and A. It's a nice variety for an evening—everything moves quite smoothly.

You’ve spent the last 30 years on tour, for the most part. What’s it like to be travelling now, by yourself? With no band and only a book in hand—as you say just carrying a suitcase full of stories?

I’ve always been quite reticent since the band started to actually get out my guitar, and do something by myself, because, you know—I fought so hard to get my band, I don’t want to be without them. But I think this has been a perfect situation for me–to kind of combine a few things by playing music and doing the reading. It’s almost like, if you have that tool in your arsenal, then why not use it? If I was just supporting a book, and I was just going to visit book shops, it wouldn't be so much fun, and you also wouldn’t get that many people showing up. It’s been nice to mix things up a bit.

I don’t think anyone is in the least bit surprised that you’ve written a book, given your novelistic approach to your songwriting. From the very beginning, Belle and Sebastian introduced such rich, fully developed characters. You go all the way back to the “State I’m In,” which is probably the first Belle and Sebastian song many people heard, and there is this central character who feels so real and multi-dimensional. Where did that approach come from—was it the result of being an avid reader?

I think there's such a huge difference—it’s almost like a through-the-looking-glass thing. There are two sides of this endeavor—one of being a consumer of artistic things, and the other to be a producer. They’re so separate and different. Because I can remember trying to write songs in this era when I was consuming a lot of music and reading books all the time, and I just couldn't do it. It wasn’t until I went through this illness and disaster, and years of being in this kind of vacuum that I actually found my own voice. And there’s not many things I set out to do. It just kind of comes out that way, and that's genuine. We were talking about this last night in Toronto, and I think it all comes back to the illness. It all comes back to my life stopping when I was 20. I had these four, five, six years of very little happening. And instead of being part of the world, I had to just be the observer. And at that point, I started to romanticize about the people that I was observing. I could be sitting in a laundry, and somebody would come in, put their wash in, and leave, and I would write a song about them. There was so much that I extrapolated. I wondered what their life was like, because I was standing still. So, I put those thoughts and movements into my songs.

Back to “Nobody’s Empire.” You started writing this book in 2019, right? What prompted the decision to write a novel?

Yeah, it was a kind of lazy decision. I wanted to do something creative that wasn't out of the realm of the band. I thought I might do a comic novel, and it actually started like that. I was supplying pages to a friend of mine, Graham, who was illustrating them, but once I got going, it sort of quickly outstripped the pace that he could write. And I thought, I'm ‘I'm just going to keep going with this and see where it goes.’

How daunting was this task? You’ve been writing almost mini-novels your whole life in the forms of your songs—did they prepare you at all for this endeavor?

I think I was probably just naturally building up to this. I remember Stuart [David] from the band in the early days, he used to write novels, and I thought that was amazing. It was like the moon to me that somebody could just sit down and fill page upon page of thoughts and observations. But again, I'm quite lazy. I don't try too hard. It’s great if you're going to start somewhere, to do what I’m doing. Like “This Side of Paradise,” or “A Portrait of an Artist As a Young Man,” just this side-step from what actually happened. It wasn't this huge amount of invention.

And the novel shares the same title as the 2019 Belle and Sebastian song that opened “Girls in Peacetime Want to Dance,” which captures the struggles you’ve had with chronic fatigue syndrome. When you wrote that song, did you have any idea that you could expand it into a novel?

Not at all, actually. Even that song surprised me at the time, because although I've been writing inadvertently about ME for years, that was the first time that I'd really sort of captured it in the era and the time when it happened. It was actually years later when I did actually write about those initial experiences. I was doing some live readings of some of the passages before the book was fully written, and somebody afterwards on Facebook commented, ‘oh, you should call your book “Nobody’s Empire.”’ I immediately realized that that would be the obvious title.

You’ve been very candid about your struggles with chronic fatigue syndrome. When you were first diagnosed, what were those early periods like? I can imagine that must have been incredibly frustrating, since so little was known about the disease at the time.

It was a psychological nightmare. It's like the rug is pulled right out from under you and your life is stopped completely. And nobody can tell you what's going on. There is no road map to recovery–not even a road map to being ill. I remember going to see a specialist, and he was very nice and said, ‘look, we don't know much about this. You know more about this than we do.’ And then he sent me home, and that was it.

The main character in the book, Stephen, obviously shares so many similarities with you. Was there ever any thought of writing a memoir instead of a novel?

Again, I really didn’t think too much about it. The moment that I wrote the first page, it set the tone. I gave Stephen a name, and everything just felt natural to me. It wasn't really until I finished the book and my agent was like, ‘what is this? Is this autofiction?’ I didn't even know what that was. He said, ‘well, it's not a straight memoir,’ and I said, well, it can be whatever you want it to be. But in the end, I'm happy that they called it fiction.

In the book, Stephen meets Carrie, who is also dealing with health issues. I think people can make all sorts of assumptions about who Carrie might represent—is she based in real life? Or was that character completely made up?

She is very much based on my best friend, Kira. Kira is on the cover of “If You’re Feeling Sinister,” and she's my best friend to this day. The friendship is the absolute core of the book—I meet her on page two and that’s where the magic is. Everything just flows from there—that friendship. And there is a little bit of, ‘well, If they're so close, why aren’t they a couple?’ It’s definitely the central relationship in the book.

With a subject matter that hewed so closely to your life, did it feel liberating to write “Nobody’s Empire?” Or was it scary to be that open?

I don't find anything scary. When you've been through something like ME and you're still going through it, and you've had really bad depression and all that stuff, creativity and being open is actually almost a relief—it’s like the counterpoint. It's a consolation to be so open about this. It's almost like an excuse to be completely, well—not necessarily brave, but just out there. Kira is the same way—where it's sort of bred in us—this inborn sort of stubbornness and openness, because we know what life is. Life is too short, and we've wasted so much time being ill—so we’re just going to tell it how it is. Since the start of Belle and Sebastian, that's always been my driving thing. I have no qualms about it. I will never turn away from getting up on a stage because the alternative is darkness and that is no fun at all.

A central part of the novel and a central part of your life story is this journey to California. You’ve talked in the past about how transformative that experience was for you, and I know that you lived in San Francisco for a short while. Why was that moment in your life so important for you?

Well, it was an accidental thing to be honest. It could have been Melbourne, or it could have been Nice. In the book—and what happened in the book did kind of happen to us—the boys just picked a place to get away for the winter and be warm in a Mediterranean climate. In real life, we actually picked San Diego because we heard it had the best weather all around. But the thing is— the plane landed in San Francisco first. We were there for a few days before we continued our journey. San Francisco was really the first city outside of Glasgow I spent any time in. It got its hooks into me really quickly. And so we went down to San Diego, and that's written about in the book, but I was always getting pulled back to the Bay. San Francisco was such a contrast to Glasgow and there was an obvious liberation happening there. We started to literally feel better because of the weather and there was a lot of baggage that was lifted there. I know it’s a cliché, but when you come to a new city, especially one California, you can be whoever the hell you want to be. In Glasgow, there were a lot of people that still wanted you to stay in your place. They would look down their nose at you if you wanted to try and be a songwriter. It really did all happen in California for us.

And, like every novelist, you have to determine when the story ends. How did that process work for you?

I remember the advice that a friend of mine, Barry Mendel, gave me. He was the producer in a movie I made called “God Help The Girl.” When I was writing that movie, he said, ‘whatever you do, before you start writing, just decide where it starts and where it stops.’ And so, I used that for the book. I did at least know that much when I set out to write it. I knew it started when I met with Kira, and I knew it was going to finish two years later, just when I came back from the trip. That at least was set in stone. But actually, it's funny, because the American part originally was only meant to be about the last 20 percent of the book. It contrasts nicely with the first half—where we really don't go out of our postcode area. Suddenly, the two of us are in California and more starts to happen. And I ended up writing much more than I thought I would about that trip.

Going back to San Francisco—you’ll be returning here on Monday, to speak at the Chapel. Are your experiences coming back to San Francisco always special moments for you? Anything you’re particularly looking forward to seeing here?

I just let it happen. Sometimes, when you're on tour, you don't get a chance to do all the things you want to do, but in San Francisco it tends to be different. There’s a character called Jeannie in the book, and I get to hang with the real Jeannie in San Francisco, which is great. She's remained a firm friend for years. Actually, the last time I was there, in May, we rolled up to Oakland, and I was, as usual, really sick. I got off the bus and I went for acupuncture, and it was like a Saturday morning, and the center said they could take me, but I would have to be in a class where I was part of a demonstration. I went into this kind of lecture theater, and they put me on a table. And there were like, 50 Chinese students learning acupuncture, and I was the subject. There was this very good healing vibe about, and they were all smiling and happy to be there. I was ‘like, San Francisco, you've done it again.’ I got out of the acupuncture and I thought I should really go back to the bus and rest, but then I just said ‘fuck it, I'm getting on the BART’, and I ended up in Mission Dolores Park. I made it there and met my friend Heather, and we just caught up and it was such an amazing day.

You’ll be speaking with Mike Schulman from Slumberland Records and Nommi Alouf. You mentioned these book talks as almost “American football games with four quarters.” What can we expect on Monday?

The fun thing about every talk so far—and I've done this in the UK as well—is that every night, it's a different host. Every day goes in a different direction. We don't know where it's going to go, and I'm really happy about that. This will be the first time that there's two hosts and Nommi is kind of in the book–she’s represented by this character called Sharon, who is a DJ that Stephen runs into. But I think it will be that kind of slightly misty thing, where it’s kind of hard to tell what will happen.

Looking ahead—any other novels in your future? Or was this a one-time endeavor?

I love storytelling and I guess music is what I'm best at. But I'm always just waiting for the next thing. My radar is on all the time. I think on the whole, I'll probably do less Belle and Sebastian stuff in the next 10 or so years, and try to do slightly different creative endeavors. I'm not sure if I'll end up writing another book, but I always feel very creative, and I know that time is short.

Belle and Sebastian played a bunch of shows last year, but nothing is scheduled for 2025. Do you all have any live dates in the offing?

We’re going to wait until 2026 and we're going to some bigger shows. Usually, we start recording music right after we're done touring, but I wanted a little break. I wanted a chance to maybe think about doing something else. Those guys are all doing their own thing, I mean, Stevie [Jackson] is recording just now, Chris [Geddes] and David [McGowan] are writing together, Sarah [Martin] is writing. Everybody's doing their own thing.

What about new music? You all have been incredibly prolific over your career. “Late Developers” came out in 2023—can we expect new music soon?

Yeah--there won't be an album, which is what I was kind of hinting at. I personally want to put my creativity into a different project. I've been writing different music. I'm interested in writing for choirs, actually—more like a kind of spiritual music, this kind of gospel, churchy type music. This is just early days, and I really don't know which choir I'm going to do it for, but sometimes you just gotta swing the bat the other way and see what happens.

Show Details:
Stuart Murdoch “Nobody’s Empire Book Tour”
Where: The Chapel
When: 7:30 p.m., Monday, February 10
Tickets: $30, available here.

Will Reisman 1/15/25 Will Reisman 1/15/25

Broken Dreams Club Interview: Tim Heidecker

As the creator of programs like “Tom Goes to the Mayor” and “Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Great Job!” Tim Heidecker—more so than any other artist—helped establish the absurdist, surrealist comedy stylings that are ubiquitous today. His influences can be found in everything from television commercials to programs like “The Eric Andre Show” to the work of comics like Nathan Fielder, Julio Torres, John Early and Kate Berlant.

For the past decade, however, Heidecker has also cultivated a second career as a plainspoken and earnest musician, embracing the sounds of 70s’ Laurel Canyon singer-songwriters as well as troubadours like Randy Newman and Elvis Costello. Last October, Heidecker released “Slipping Away,” his latest collection of folk-inflected rock songs.

On February 22, Heidecker and his Very Good Band will perform at Bimbo’s 365 Club. Prior to that show, Broken Dreams Club spoke with Heidecker about the inspirations for his new album, among other topics.

Your latest tour kicks off next week here at Bimbos’ here in San Francisco. How are you all preparing for this latest batch of shows?

We’re going to rehearse this week, but the San Francisco show is going to be interesting, because we’re not doing a warm-up show first in Los Angeles, like we normally do. We’re just jumping into the deep end. It’s a whole new set, and we’re going to try some new things that I haven't done before on the road, so it's going to be a scary first show for me. I'm sure we'll learn some things. It'll be interesting to get audience feedback from the Bay Area. I mean, it will probably make for a really fun, unique show. We might make some mistakes, but I always kind of like seeing that as an audience member—that human element of the performance.

You’ve been pretty prolific touring these past few years. You’re never taking more than a few months off between shows. How important is it for you to maintain this live music schedule, and how are you able to fit this in with all your endeavors?

Once I jumped in and put this band together it started this cycle, where my first tour led to a record with the band, and then some opportunities to play some more behind that. America is so big and there's so many places to play. You can do one route one year, and then a totally different route the next year. You get to go away and not always play the same places. So, we were able to do that for a couple years and then we were able to go to Europe. You have to plan these tours so far in advance—that’s sort of the scary thing. I think we started planning this tour a year ago, and so it's just been sitting on my calendar. It’s like this slow moving train coming my way. But I'm excited to play with this band, and to get out there and check in with the people of this country, and play these songs from the record. Maybe play some songs that I haven't played live before, and do some new stand-up comedy I’m excited about.

Obviously, you first made your name for yourself through your comedy, but you’ve been playing music for most of your life as well, right? What was your introduction to music, and have you been playing pretty much consistently since you first started? I mean, music was always an integral part of Tim and Eric…

I mean, in high school, I was a big classic rock fan, big music fan. My cousin played guitar, and some of his friends played in, like, hardcore bands and punk bands. And it was just the thing to do. I wasn't a sports guy. I was kind of into theater and music, before comedy. Really, I loved comedy too, but music was something you could actually do with your friends. You could make videos and stuff with a camcorder, but you really couldn't do much more than that with comedy. But you could put a band together, and you could rent a four track tape machine, and you could play shows. So that's what I did, and that's what most of my friends did. And so, I kind of always maintained that part of my life. And I think in the past 10 years, it's been something I’ve taken a little more seriously. I find a lot of satisfaction in songwriting and trying to make the best records possible.

“Slipping Away” is your latest collection of slice-of-life California folk that is composed of really pretty songs, and even more, it’s just a disarmingly earnest album. Tim and Eric basically set the template for the absurdist, ironic comedy that is absolutely ubiquitous everywhere now, but you’ve said in recent interviews how it took you a while to kind of emerge from that cocoon of irony. What did it take for you to arrive as this songwriter who is really devoid of that irony—whose songs are candid and honest and plainspoken?

I think it has a little bit to do with boredom with where I was at creatively. I'm very antsy and always looking for the next thing to do, and never really satisfied with where I am. And those kinds of tendencies have always been with me. I think I sensed that I was stuck in a creative place. So, it seemed kind of natural to me that, after 10 years of sort of very deep irony and disassociation with feelings, that the most interesting or most severe turn I could make would be to be very open and honest. And it's also just better for the music. My thing is to try to hold all these things together, or hold all these things at once, and it's sort of project based. If I want to make a record, I want that record to feel as well conceived and earnest and moving as possible. And if I'm making a season of On Cinema, I want it to be the funniest, craziest, sickest, stupidest thing you've ever seen. I just want the thing that I'm making to be the as pure a version of that thing as possible.

One of the things that makes “Slipping Away” so enjoyable is that your fears and insecurities are so damn relatable. For someone who has been so insanely prolific over the years, to hear a song like “Well’s Running Dry” is almost shocking in its plaintiveness. I would never imagine that someone like you struggles with creative blocks, but it also is a reminder that you’re a human like the rest of us. Is that something you confront a lot—finding moments where inspiration just doesn’t arrive?

I go through periods of dry spells and this mix of maybe feeling uninspired or not very creative. And I also go through periods, where there are things that I want to do, but nobody else wants me to, or that there's no market for. You know—shows don't get picked up or movies don't happen or whatever. I have plenty of that—there is plenty of rejection in my life—me and all the people I work with. And then I have feelings of procrastination, or feeling not motivated to finish something that I started—just like everyone else. I do have nice periods of productivity where things happen. But in between all those, I wallow in that kind misery of not being always clear about what to do next.

In that same vein, you’re very humble and grounded on this album. I’m not being hyperbolic when I say that you’re a titanic figure to so many people like me—the absolute pinnacle figure of creativity and comedy—yet on “Dad of the Year,” you seem to be coming to terms that your original dreams and aspirations might not ever come true. That seems almost a little unduly harsh, but also a reminder that we all face self-doubt. How do you cope with those feelings and are there moments when you can kind of indulgently reflect and realize that you have had a profound impact on a lot of people?

I appreciate that. The record came out really good, and I'm really happy with it and the feedback I get is always nice. People seem to really like it—but it's not like it was on any best-of list, you know what I mean? That’s sort of my career. I think that there is real appreciation. I hear a lot of nice stuff, but I think from the beginning, even with Tim and Eric stuff, there was always this sort of feeling of not being treated the way some other people are treated. We don’t maybe get the recognition that I think we deserve. And that that might not be your perspective, but it is mine. So, when I'm playing “Dad of the Year,” I do feel that way sometimes.

The New York Times did a really nice story about you recently!

For sure. And not to get into the weeds of the media, but there is the kind of media where it’s like a profile or an interview or conversation, and those are always really nice. But then there's this other editorial side, that is maybe a little snobby or a little dismissive of me. And that’s probably because of the insecurity of them asking, ‘is this a joke?’ ‘Is he being sincere?’ I think there is a feeling of not really knowing. Like—where am I coming from, even though I'm very explicit about my intent.

One of the joys of your album is the commonplace things that make you happy. “Bottom of the 8th” is just a sweet song about enjoying a baseball game with your daughter. When you were in that moment, were you thinking, ‘man this would make for a good song?”

That one definitely was written on the road. It was a combination of things. My daughter is getting to the age where we can go and do things together, and it's really fun. And she loves baseball. I love baseball. We go to the games, and we can hang out like a couple of pals. You know, it's really a beautiful thing. I was literally in North Carolina in the summertime, down the street from where the Durham Bulls play. It was all swirling in my head. I sat at the piano and just started playing a song about taking my daughter to a baseball game. And it's probably because I was missing my family on the road. But yeah, it just felt like one of those songs where I was surprised it hadn't been written yet.

And then there is “Trippin (Slippin)” which is about as close as you get to the hedonistic rock n roll lifestyle. What was that experience like—eating some mushroom in a random hotel, right?

I had dabbled in that stuff years and years ago in high school, like probably a lot of suburban Gen Xers, and really hadn't returned to it in a long time. I felt very paranoid. I'm not a drug guy, and I don't do that kind of stuff very much. And I was nervous. But there is this sort of a mushroom renaissance happening the past few years and we had finished most of the tour. We had like two more shows left. We had a day off. We were in the desert, and I really had grown very close to the band and really enjoyed them, and we just got along so well. And we had a bag of mushrooms from a good, trusted source, and I thought, ‘I'll take a little bit’, you know, and that was the key. The dosage is so important. When I was 17 years old, I’d probably take, like, a whole bag of the stuff and then feel like the world was coming to an end. You find that little dose that makes you feel like things are cool and you can sit by the pool and just relax. So, I wrote that song coming from that earnest place of like, an embarrassingly honest drug song.

You have so many great contemporary musicians on Office Hours, and you’ve toured with indie rock heroes like Snail Mail and Waxahatchee. And your pals with Weyes Blood and the Lemon Twigs and Jonathan Rado. Still, a lot of your music seems drawn from that Laurel Canyon rock and Randy Newman kind of singer-songwriter era—are there any newer musicians who inspired or influenced this album?

I mean, first of all, all those people you mentioned seem to also draw from that era and that's probably why we all get along pretty well. We have the same musical language or whatever. But yeah, we had this guy, Christian Lee Hutson, on the show recently and he talked about This Is Lorelei. Do you know that guy?

Yeah—that album is one of my absolute favorites of 2024.

Yeah. I don't listen to a lot of new music, but when I find something like that, I just listen to it all the time. I listen to it every day. And so that hopefully will turn me on to some other things. I've been listening to my own music trying to get ready for this tour. And I've been going back to early Dylan because I ended up really liking “A Complete Unknown,”—

which I was very surprised about. I thought it was going to be, you know, not good, but I ended up really liking it. I'm such a big Dylan fan. Yeah, so I started going back and listening to those early records that I hadn't listened to in a while, and kind of marveling at what just unbelievable well of creativity that was happening when he was so young.

Looking ahead to this show at Bimbo’s—are you excited to be coming back to San Francisco? Are you familiar with the venue at all?

Yeah—I'm excited. I've never been there. The past few times I've been to San Francisco, we played at the Palace of Fine Arts, which is not like my favorite room. Just kind of felt a little more like you'd see an opera there or something. But we’re happy to be playing in San Francisco. Ellie [Athayde], our bass player, is excited because her parents are from the Bay Area. She said her parents used to go to Bimbo’s when they were teenagers.

And you’ve got Kyle Mooney opening! That’s amazing! What can we expect there? Will you be joining him at all? I know you mentioned to expect a little comedy alongside your music…

Yeah—Kyle's opening, and then I've been doing this routine. It's not my stand up character, but I've been doing this routine in LA that's really fun a little bit more for me. I haven't really talked about it very much, but I've been collecting YouTube comments and Instagram comments and Facebook comments and I've curated some conversations that I think are interesting to discuss. I've done that with a little slide show. I want to dedicate a good 20 minutes of the show to me goofing around to break up some of the music. A side of me that you probably see more on Office Hours. I'm still putting that together, but I'm excited—it will be a multimedia thing.

Is Kyle going to join for that? Or is he going to be doing his own thing?

We’ll probably overlap a little bit. It will be a new thing for this tour—picking up different, different openers along the way. We’ll have Neil Hamburger and DJ Douggpound. I’ve got this great community—not only of the audience, but of people like Neil and Doug. I’d rather just try to keep it in my little clique, and I think the audience is gonna love it.

And to transition just for a moment to some of your other endeavors. The latest season of On Cinema debuted on Christmas and it’s as epic as ever. Newman Heidecker seems to have a nice new sheen to his face. When you and Gregg first started this, did you have any inkling at all that it would still be going 15 years later and not only that, but it would also evolve into this all-encompassing cinematic universe?

We had no idea. I mean, we started small, but it did occur to us early on that they're always going to put out movies, so we could always do this—there's always something to talk about. And once we got season four or five, we realized that you could tell some pretty interesting stories without spending a lot of money, because you can just talk about things. You don't have to really see them happen. It’s more like radio play or something. And so, it’s kind of compounded on itself, and the stories got more complicated and more involved. But at the core, there was always this grounding foundation of two guys, who hate each other, talking about movies. And every year, I think ‘does this still work?’ ‘Is this still funny?’ Even when we're shooting it, there's this uncertainty about it, but then the cuts start coming in, and we're like, ‘yep, there it is.’ I feel as happy about it as I've ever felt. And there isn't really any reason to stop, now that we're doing this paid model, the subscription model, which has been working. I'm always looking for it to expand, and we're working on getting an app and getting it so you can watch it on your TV and stuff like that. It's like running this small business that is not always fun, but it's great that we can keep doing it. Gregg still makes me laugh. I still make myself laugh.

Yeah, the last few episodes were as funny as any On Cinema episode ever. One of the things I think must be enjoyable for you is the evolution of the Tim Heidecker character. There’s a new look every season. I can imagine it’s fun to just embrace that ridiculous nature of the character.

Sometimes the story drives that, and sometimes it’s just where I am at in my life. And yeah, We have a text thread that throws looks and ideas back and forth. I don’t think we thought this new look was going to be that great at first. And then when we started doing the hair, we all just started laughing. And everyone's running around, like, ‘you gotta come in and look at this’. Eric [Notarnicola], our director, when he first saw me, came by and was just like, ‘Oh my god. Wow.’ I mean, we still crack ourselves up like that.

And I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask if you have any future creative projects planned with Eric. Anything in the works there?

Yeah, we are writing something that we've been planning to write for a while. We’re going to start before I go on tour, and then hopefully be writing when I get back. And it's a movie idea that is still in the early stages. But hopefully that will find its way into your lives sometime this year or next year.

Anything I missed here? Any other upcoming projects you’re working on at the moment? I’m finally catching up on What We Do in The Shadows and you’re great in that…

At this point, my life is just touring, and then Office Hours and On Cinema—and a little acting. So that's it, right now. I'm not looking to do more than that.

Show Details:
Tim Heidecker and the Very Good Band with Kyle Mooney, DJ Douggpound and a special command performance from Tim “no more bullshit” Heidecker
Where: Bimbo’s 365 Club
When: 8 p.m., Wednesday, January 22
Tickets: $48.88, available here.

Will Reisman 10/18/24 Will Reisman 10/18/24

Broken Dreams Club Interview: Christopher Owens

As the lead singer and founding member of Girls, Christopher Owens left a lasting, indelible impact on San Francisco, the place he called home for more than 15 years.

Following the dissolution of Girls, the untimely death of bandmate Chet “JR” White, and a series of other personal tragedies, Owens relocated from San Francisco to New York. Today, Owens releases his first solo album in nine years, the gorgeously emotive “I Wanna Run Barefoot Through Your Hair.” A stunning achievement, the new collection of songs draw upon all the candor and self-reflection that made Girls so great, while also charting an intriguing new path forward for Owens.

Broken Dreams Club spoke with Owens–whose EP with Girls provides the name for this website–about leaving San Francisco, overcoming countless setbacks, finding new love and being continually inspired by the joy of making music.

“I Wanna Run Barefoot Through Your Hair,” your first solo album in nine years, and your first music of any kind in seven years, comes out today. What’s going through your mind right now?

It's been very exciting. I've been waiting for so long to be able to release this music. Seeing the positive reactions so far has been really nice. I'm just glad it's finally here.

I’m so excited to talk about that new album, but first I want to go over all the huge life changes that have happened since we last talked. First and foremost, you moved from San Francisco to New York City. As much as I would have liked you to stay here, it seemed like the move really rejuvenated you. What’s it been like living in NYC?

I've been to New York a lot over the years, but I've never lived here. It’s a nice new experience. I'm definitely still kind of isolated from my friend group or whatever, but if you're going to do that, I guess New York's a good place, because there's so much to do and check out. It's never really boring. I don't know if I'll stay forever, but it's a good experience to try out. I’m experiencing actual seasons, which is a whole different thing for me. Time passes in a different way, which makes you feel differently about life.

You’ve talked a lot about how the San Francisco that you knew and loved had changed so much over the years. Was it still hard to say goodbye, even after all the difficulties you experienced in the last few years here?

It will always be sad to me that I even had to leave. I wish I didn't have to, but I knew it was the best thing for me to do at that point. I probably spent several years there just trying to make it happen, when I probably should have made a move. I gave it a good shot. I'll probably always miss it. It was the longest place I've ever lived in my life.

One of your biggest life developments is that you’re now happily married. From what I understand it was quite the whirlwind romance. You all met at one of your shows in LA, right?

Yeah, it was a pretty big surprise the way it went down. It was definitely not something I was thinking was going to happen, but it felt right, and I didn't see any reason why I shouldn't do it. I kind of thought to myself, ‘maybe this is how it is for everybody.’ I always thought there'd be something more planned out, but it kind of makes sense that it didn't work out that way for me. But it’s been really cool. She's from LA, so we go back there a lot, which has been interesting. I never really had a connection to LA before. But now that I do, I realize that a lot of my friends are there, and it’s one of the last places where it seems like everybody still goes out together. It feels like the old days in San Francisco.

You’ve experienced so much hardship in the past several years—homelessness, a very serious motorcycle accident, the dissolution of your relationship and the death of your closest friend. Not to go all inspirational movie on you, but what allowed you to persevere through that?

I honestly don’t know. When I think about it, all together in hindsight, it's obviously been a lot. And I do have moments where I don't know how I really even got through that. If somebody would have told me, it’s gonna take seven years for you to be able to put out another record. I would have been like, ‘what?’ I would not have known how to accept that. But all you can really do is put one foot in front of the other and keep going. There were definitely moments where I had to sort of ask myself if I was going to try to do something else, but, fortunately I never really got to that point. I always wanted to be playing music and have friends in my life and just keep living how I want to live. I never wanted to be a scenester or anything, but it’s really as simple as that. And, when you do go through that much, you can maybe question how you’re living your life or spending your time. I think it’s maybe a necessary thing for people to experience once in a while—to be tested like that. Hopefully, it's not super extreme, like what I went through, but I think you need to be pushed, so you ask yourself, ‘is this what I really want?’ And then you can take stock of everything, and for me, it was reassuring to see what was important to me. All that I went through, makes everything feel so meaningful now.

Today actually marks the four-year anniversary of JR’s death. How often is he in your thoughts? What are your fondest memories of him?

He’s been in my mind every day since he passed. Most of my memories are of all the things that we managed to do together. Just the way we sort of stumbled through all these experiences and had to rely on each other so much to get through it all. When big decisions would come up, we were really all we had. When it came to signing big contracts or making huge decisions or touring for the first time—we never thought we'd be actually able to do that stuff. He was a great person to experience all that with. Maybe there were moments where touring was harder for him and maybe sometimes it would be harder for me to let go of ideas on how I wanted songs to be done, but at the end of the day, we never really had any disagreements that lasted longer than a day.

He was a lot funnier than people realized because he kind of came across as serious. People always thought he was older than me, but in many ways, he was more of a kind than I was—he just had that hilarious sense of humor. He loved cooking. He loved to make food on the road. His family was fun to be around. He was a special person.

When you’re making music now, do you often think of him? How he might approach or contribute to the songs you’re creating?

Yeah—that’s always gonna happen. All my experiences of doing music for those first four years involved him. So, I’ll always be wondering what he would do differently, or if he would like my choices or whatever.

Speaking of these new songs. They’re amazing. When we talked, you mentioned that you had a ton of unreleased material from your time with Curls. Were these songs from those sessions? Or were these all written and recorded more recently?

Yeah–most of these songs are from those sessions. I redid some things, but that's mainly what it was. I took a few songs out and switched them with other things. And then there was a lot of stuff we just didn't record, but most of the songs from this album are from that time period.

The first single you released, “Think About Heaven,” this really gorgeous, breezy, airy song. Of course, it seems like every time you write anything remotely related to religion, people bring up your background growing up in Children of God. You’ve been very candid about your experiences there, and you said that your connection with religion continues to evolve. What’s your current relationship like?

As far as organized religion, I still don't really have any relationship with it. You know, I'm aware of it. I find it interesting, as a human phenomenon, just because I know so much about it. But it really isn't anything I'm into. For me religion has always been more interesting at a personal level. My relationship with the Bible was unplanned for the most part—it was kind of unchosen from the beginning. But recently, I can't help but think about it and read it and it’s probably always going to be a big part of my life. I don’t think the point of the whole thing was to be an organized religion, anyway. Jesus was actually about disrupting that. He was telling people that that their relationship to God was inside of themselves and not inside of some temple. So that's really more the way that I view it. I think there's a reason that it has persisted. No matter how logical and no matter how much our understanding of the world grows, there is always will be that personal relationship.

Shifting gears a little bit--“This is My Guitar” is another great song. I remember when we were speaking a few years ago, and you told me that busking outside in San Francisco—in the wind and the cold—helped make you a much better guitar player. This song reminds me of that—when everything else goes away, you’ll always have your music. How important has music been as this grounding force for you?

It's very important. At a time when there was no real reason to hang on to this and it was probably more logical for me to focus on something else, music became even more important to me. When I had to choose what to do with myself during the pandemic–when I was living in my car and when I really didn't have anyone familiar around me anymore, my reaction was just to play more music and turn to it more. I didn't think about it as a choice—it was this subconscious thing and I only realized afterwards that that's what I was doing. I was really glad, ultimately, because it was reassuring to know that I was doing something valuable with myself. It’s also an amazing feeling when you can actually get better at something. When you're 40 years old and having this same rewarding experience you felt as a teenager of getting better at the guitar. And I've been getting way more into playing keyboards lately and exploring new instruments. I'm just so grateful that I have something like this in my life that I can do.

“No Good” feels like it could absolutely be a Girls outtake, sonically. Whereas “I Think About Heaven” has this upbeat, positive outlook on life, “No Good” takes the opposite tack. What’s the backstory with that song? Is it about anything specific?

It was the first song that I wrote after the break up of my last relationship. It took a while to actually write something like that. I really was only writing instrumental guitar music for a long time. I think it was all too much to address for a while. It took a year until I finally wrote that song and a few other ones. That was kind of me waving the white flag on that relationship. It was about reflecting on the crazy experience that was really jolting. It wasn’t just a disappointing breakup—it was one of those things that really fucked my life up. Something like that shakes your whole idea of yourself and makes you question everything. It definitely made me feel pretty lousy. It’s funny because people say they’ve never heard me write like that. Even though it might sound like a Girls song, what I’m saying on that song is very different.

So, “Album” recently celebrated 15 years since its release. What does that anniversary mean to you? What are your memories of making that record?

It's always shocking when one of those anniversaries happens. Time seems to pass in a funny way. That record was such a crazy experience. We spent, maybe two years, making it, which is the only record I've ever spent that much time working on. In the beginning, it was just JR and I recording in the bedroom, and the goal was just to get another song done to put on our Myspace page. And then to watch that reaction over those first six months– to see how much people responded to those songs was pretty amazing. It wasn’t until late 2008, after a year of working on those songs and playing those first shows, that we finally started talking to labels about actually making a record. When we knew there was actually going to be an album made, we spent the next year recording the rest of the songs and mixing them up in Seattle at a studio there. It was a huge learning experience. I’d never done any kind of band recording or singing. I played guitar in Holy Shit for a few years, but that was a totally different experience. That first record is sort of the birth of me finding out what I was going to do with myself.

I hope that you appreciate how much you mean to music fans in San Francisco. I think there is a generation of folks like me, whose experience living in the city is so closely tied with the music of Girls. Are you able to reflect on that at all?

I think I’m aware of that, and it means so much to me. To be able to have any sort of impact, especially in a city like San Francisco, is just an amazing feeling. It’s not like doing it in Dallas—San Francisco is this special, sophisticated city and people have taste there. When I left Amarillo, Texas, San Francisco was to me, the most European and beautiful city, and my number one place to go to in America. Coming there as a young adult and being able to have an experience like that and to maybe leave that kind of impression is priceless for me. It gives me a little bit of pride in myself—hopefully not too much—but it makes me feel good. And I couldn't think of anywhere else I would have liked to have made that impression.

Last question: do you have plans to come back to San Francisco on tour?

Yeah—the first round of shows isn't really a tour, per se, but I’ll definitely be in San Francisco as part of that.[Note, after this interview, Owens announced a set of shows that includes a performance at The Chapel on December 16.] I’m definitely coming there first, and then I'm sure I’ll be there again when we have an actual tour. I can’t wait to play in San Francisco, actually.

“I Wanna Run Barefoot Through Your Hair” is out now on True Panther Records. Buy the album here.

Features
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